MaxCoderz

leofox wrote:If the country thing was chosen (and if i'd participate) i'd have to make something about wooden shoes, windmills and stuff? :S

And i agree with Kevin that basic should be included, but not with external assembly. That's cheating.

What about Whack-a-Hoe, Drugwars or Windmilll Manager?

Kozak wrote:

leofox wrote:If the country thing was chosen (and if i'd participate) i'd have to make something about wooden shoes, windmills and stuff? :S

And i agree with Kevin that basic should be included, but not with external assembly. That's cheating.

What about Whack-a-Hoe, Drugwars or Windmilll Manager?

Something like NeoPimp?

Well if BASIC is optional for the competition, I'd like to give a try if it's one of the vote choices.. *whistles*

Once we setteled the subject and the competition starts, I will give the official rules and conditions

I think that if BASIC is allowed, there shouldnt be a seperate category.

Everything should be judged against each other.

tr1p1ea wrote:I think that if BASIC is allowed, there shouldnt be a seperate category.

Everything should be judged against each other.

In that case, the judges should at least take into account the limitations. I that way, a decent animation [say] in BASIC might beat a really awesome one in ASM because the BASIC programmer had done some really really ingenious things in BASIC to get it as far as they could...

benryves wrote:

tr1p1ea wrote:I think that if BASIC is allowed, there shouldnt be a seperate category.

Everything should be judged against each other.

In that case, the judges should at least take into account the limitations. I that way, a decent animation [say] in BASIC might beat a really awesome one in ASM because the BASIC programmer had done some really really ingenious things in BASIC to get it as far as they could...

I dont really like that, it should be based on the animation, not what it is coded in. Its not the person who coded in ASM's fault that the other person coded in BASIC because they dont know ASM ... therefore they shouldnt be penalised.

Anyway ... we dont even know what the competiton will be about, the rules ultimately lie with kv83 .

But if someone is doing 3d animation, you can't do that in BASIC unless you want to wait 20 minutes for it to render and animate, as opposed to 10 seconds or so in ASM. There should be leaniantcy (wow, spelling ) for BASIC programmers since they're terribly limited. Personally I'd find it more interesting if no ASM support was allowed for BASIC entries, as suggested earlier..

Anyhow, I'm predicting what the choice will be, and I've already started (if that's okay..). One reason why I've started is because I was already doing some of it before the competition idea had been suggested, and the other reason is because I have nothing to do; I'm sick and I'm not supposed to be on the computer, which means I can't work on DDR or transfer stuff from my calc. Blargh. At least I have my mp3 player hooked up to my pc speakers Even if the competition ends up being for something else, I'm having fun working on this side-project.

Well i dont really know if its fair if you start before the competition starts, because it might end up being what you are doing ... which would give you a big advantage.

Also back to the BASIC and ASM argument, you forget that it is a LOT harder to do tihngs in ASM than it is in BASIC. 3D related stuff is very simple in BASIC and difficult in ASM, although its slow in BASIC and can be fast in ASM.

I think it should be judged by who can get the most out of the device, there should not be any double standards.

True, but you're not considering that people have reasoning. Yes, you can visually do things in BASIC that you can in ASM, but it'd require so much RAM and so much time that you'd need to have a fresh set of batteries everytime you ran the thing just to match up with the assembly, because it'd take sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo long.

Say we want to make a 3d landscape with shading done. Okay, that'd take 5-10 minutes to render in BASIC, whereas in assembly it runs so fast you could do live-movement and fly around a 3d island. Which would you prefer? That's something you can't match up together, and that creates a total disadvantage for the BASIC programmers, but it almost seems wrong to completely count them out (it's like taking TI-BASIC out of kevin's calculator..). So thus, unless you consider the limitations, you might as well count out BASIC. If you still can't see that, I'm sorry :/

I disagree, basics math and equation prasing advantage give it a step up against ASM. Although advance bit math can occur in asm, it's very difficult to do and is annoying to debug.
Bezier lines are practically native to Basic where as asm they are much harder to do and not as accurate.
The contest should weigh creativity and quality. So asm may have a leg up on basic in qualtly, but a creative basic programmer can still achive alot.
Language shouldn't be consider in the contest, just as long as program can run on the calculator. Someone out there may want to do it in C or even create their own language. as long as it runs, thats all thats important.
Besides kevin has clearly done alot with very little at his disposal, he can probably manage. I never thought games like his could happen in basic, but his clearly proven me wrong.

Thats what im getting at. Although a 3D landscape would run slow in BASIC it would also be unbelieveably easy to do when compared to ASM. Therefore BASIC programmers have the advantage. If its not going to count then we may as well disregard ASM all togehter as it leaves very little incentive to the ASM programmer to rack their brain for weeks only to be judged less than a BASIC programmer.

Jim e wrote:Besides kevin has clearly done alot with very little at his disposal, he can probably manage. I never thought games like his could happen in basic, but his clearly proven me wrong.

Yes but he uses ASM libs; this competition might not allow them for BASIC.

I stand by my belief thats long as it runs, it counts. basic, basic + asm, asm, anything.
What i'm wondering is if this going to be limited to just an 83. The 83+ would have an advatage, because I could just make 10 page Movie app for the animation part. Or if the SE was allowed( ) I could take advantage of all the hardware, and really show off.

Where did all this talk about rendering 3d landscape come in. It's not as hard as it sounds, basicly graph3 zoomed in with clipping.

tr1p1ea wrote:Thats what im getting at. Although a 3D landscape would run slow in BASIC it would also be unbelieveably easy to do when compared to ASM. Therefore BASIC programmers have the advantage. If its not going to count then we may as well disregard ASM all togehter as it leaves very little incentive to the ASM programmer to rack their brain for weeks only to be judged less than a BASIC programmer.

Well, a 3d landscape in Basic would not only run slow, it would run so slowly as to be unrecognizable as anything (depending on how complicated a landscape). Personally I think they should be judged in separate categories, and Basic programmers allowed to use asm libs- after all, assembly programmers often use standard assembly libraries wirrten by others.